Yes, Hardie board needs to be waterproofed. Or will the Kerdi membrane (with seams taped with kerdi band) prevent each board from moving independently? Hardi is definitely a "thirsty" substrate but will work, even without a primer of RedGard. Cementboard sufficient to a tub surround is dirt cheap .vs. Kerdi-Board panels allow the installer to prepare and create a broad range . The back side of the drywall fails and it is just as bad or worse than if it had an issue on the tile side. What's the difference between a power rail and a signal line? An extra layer of thinset is then added to the surface of the cement board to adhere the tiles in place. Continuing Education for Architects & Designers. Waterproof showers are the trend today, so RedGard is an excellent alternative to cement boards that act as vapor barriers. Kerdi's systems are fairly reputable. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? the cost of the tile job. Creative, C'mon over for a beer! We are no longer supporting IE (Internet Explorer) as we strive to provide site experiences for browsers that support new web standards and security practices. The main types of cement board you could encounter are Fibre Reinforced Cement (FRC) board and gypsum board. Start by cleaning the cement board with a mineral oil soap; this will help reduce mold and mildew growth throughout the life of the shower. The Ditra uncoupling design is lightweight, durable, and minimizes the possibility of cracked tile and grout. A.Sean Gerolimatos, technical services manager for Schluter Systems, responds: With a few exceptions, unmodified thinset mortar is required for setting ceramic and stone tile over Kerdi membranes (800/472-4588, www.schluter.com ), as well as for bonding overlapped seams and connections to Kerdi drains. Whether or not you need a Kerdi membrane is a factor of use. Anyone who has done more than 1 shower shouldn't start without knowing that. One of the major benefits of opting for Kerdi Board over cement board is the ease of installation. If any is found, wait a few more hours and then re-inspect. We are still most comfortable with full plumber's pan over the curb, including glue-on preformed corners, and also a second layer (usually Kerdi but can be paint-on) on top of CBU wrap over curb. To get the most protection from the cement board, it should be installed in a way that ensures it is waterproof, in addition to being secured properly with the right adhesive and screws. How should I transition between cement board floor and alcove tub? When doing so, it is important to ensure that the drywall surface is clean and free of dust, grease, and loose paint. RedGard, on the other hand, is a liquid waterproofing membrane made by Custom Building Products. If so, that means breaking up the floor pan. Once all that is completed and the Aquadefense has dried, you can install your tile with a polymer modified mortar meeting the ANSI requirements of A118.4 or A118.11. Additionally, the drywall should be primed with a latex primer before applying the Kerdi membrane. I'm guessing he put a 2x6 across for the curb? Kerdi Board is also significantly lighter in terms of weight than cement board, meaning they can be transported and lifted into place with ease evening hauling five panels at a time should be no problem. I appreciate your help and your quick response. RedGard can be used on a wide range of interior and exterior surfaces. The cement board needs to be clean, free of debris, and dry. modified thin-set mortar is not recommended to set ceramic and stone tile, including large format tiles, over the KERDI membrane. The site is called floorelf.com. She grew up surrounded by constant home improvement projects and owes most of what she knows to helping her dad renovate her childhood home. Aquadefense is approved by IAPMO for use as a shower pan liner, but be sure to check your local building codes, as some areas of the country still require the PVC liner. I simply sponge off the excess. Answer (1 of 3): Schluter recommends applying Kerdi over drywall for walls, however, my local building code will not permit this practice - the local building code requires cement backer on the walls of a shower enclosure, therefore, I have done this successfully many times. Step 2: Determine the room's center. How did this project turn out? RedGard can be applied to cement board panels in two ways: Roll it on the wall with a 3/4-inch nap roller or spray it on the wall. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. is the contractor creating a waterproof schluter-kerdi shower? What is a word for the arcane equivalent of a monastery? What is the proper substrate to use on tiled wall? The benefit of using kerdi is we can lay it over drywall, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. It is also essential that cement board joints and fasteners be sealed and waterproofed with the Kerdi Fix sealant to help prevent water from leaking into the wall and floor cavities. The Kerdi-Line prefab pans and drains make me feel way more comfortable with the waterproofing. Will add it in. I also used the Kerdi drain. One thing I do like fibercement (Hardie) for is when I need thin strips of cement board. I imagine we could share some good stories. Once its applied, the last step is to follow up the waterproof coating with a waterproof sealant. Yes, it is possible to put Kerdi over regular drywall. Why are physically impossible and logically impossible concepts considered separate in terms of probability? x 5-ft. and 3 x 5-ft. sheets of cement board are sized for efficient use around bathtubs and showers. Take care to cut the KERDI membrane to the appropriate size and apply it to the wall, ensuring that it is properly adhered and that the edges are sealed with KERDI sealant. I've seen preferences regarding HardieBacker and the cement board products such as Wonder Board. Your air bubbles will travel along the valleys you've made, and it's way better if you only have to move them 20 inches to the nearest edge rather than all the way from the ceiling to the floor [Again, Mongo can, but he has mad skills].-Not paying attention to the principle of bedding top down, center out. To ensure that the Kerdi is completely dry prior to tiling, inspect the inside of the membrane for any signs of moisture or condensation. It only takes a minute to sign up. Kerdi Board is suitable for a number of interior applications. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. The major drawback to cement boards is their weight, as they are incredibly heavy and can be difficult to cut. How to install a kerdi membrane over cement backer board - Quora I posted a plea for help and Mongo and Bill both gave me good advice. While cement board is a reliable tile underlayment, it isnt completely waterproof only water-resistant. The back side of the drywall fails and it is just as bad or worse than if it had an issue on the tile side. The thickness of the tile is important, and should be known, but not because it changes the method of building. We think it is the cement board (Durock) sucking the moisture out of the unmodified thinset. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. En cliquant sur Accepter , j'accepte l'utilisation des cookies telle qu'elle est dcrite plus en dtail dans la Politique d'Utilisation des Cookies de Houzz. While cement board and grout are not waterproof, Kerdi is and can even be directly installed over drywall. The foam core surrounded by synthetic cloth on both sides and adhered with resin glue is. Since my guys and I will be doing this for the first time next week, I 'd like to take advantage of your 'learning curve.' Putting this stuff on walls is difficult and time . Another advantage is that the polyisocyanurate core of foam boards is waterproof. Is it plausible for constructed languages to be used to affect thought and control or mold people towards desired outcomes? We don't expect people to master this and in fact I know maybe two guys in my area (live in big city) that could do this. But I did want to understand the cost breakdown as the walls then become WAY more expensive than it would be with Redguard. We installed cement board on the walls, and today when we attempted to apply the Kerdi membrane we could not get it to adhere. That was not a fault of the Kerdi, or the installation. This is often accomplished by filling any holes and cracks in the wall with appropriate spackling or patching material. You can apply it on PVC, metal, slabs, walls, and floors. When I tried putting up the first sheets, which were only 36" x 39", and even though I had SOAKED the hardi, to the point water was pooling on the floor, the thinset was already drying before I got the Kerdi up, and I couldn't get it to adhere properly no matter how hard I tried. While cement board may be the most common and widely-known tile substrate, Kerdi Board is giving it a run for its money. If you want added info there's an old Kerdi thread here. Cement board is typically used in wet areas, such as bathrooms and areas with a lot of moisture, because it is waterproof and provides a level of protection from water damage and long-term moisture exposure. PROBLEM SOLVED for Tub Flange when Installing Cement Board - YouTube My idea is to block in and install the tub in the existing corner, erect the new wet wall, and use hardi-backer to shim the wall out over the tub flange, then apply kerdi over the whole thing.Does kerdi take offense at being installed over hardi? It's a lightweight polystyrene board faced with Kerdi that comes in various thicknesses that you can use in place of drywall or cement board. The cement board needs to be clean, free of debris, and dry. WATCH HERE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TRLd2HYhbU&list=PLO47JMsdYGrkxM_ZkOc3lMnsVhTqj80bB#justdoityourself #lovingit #p. Press the Kerdi Membrane into the Thinset Mortar with firm, even pressure to achieve full mortar coverage. This will prevent water from entering from behind the membrane, and will provide a more secure waterproof layer. No, you do not need to install a vapor barrier, as Kerdi Board is the vapor barrier. DensShield is one common brand. However, you do still have to take care to waterproof the seams and the fastener penetrations to create a waterproof assembly. Your Get free, zero-commitment quotes from pro contractors near you. However, a cement board is generally easier and less expensive to replace if a repair is needed. You have to seal every little hole in the floor so the underlayment doesnt seep into spaces below. Kerdi can be installed first on drywall or cement board. If there is no blocking behind the seam, i would just tape prior to installing the membrane, the thinset will fill the seam and embed the mesh. You'll know the RG is dry when it turns reallllly dark bright red as opposed to the pinkish color when applied. Finally, it is important to remember that any thin-set that has been exposed to moisture must be replaced. Once you have selected the right sealer, follow the manufacturers instructions and apply a generous, even coat over the entire surface of the Hardie board. Most of the entries in the NAME column of the output from lsof +D /tmp do not begin with /tmp. In my. Overall, waterproofing behind and around shower tile is a critical part of any installation to ensure that the area is adequately protected from water and moisture damage. Just wondering how effective is the tile on kerdi membrane vs the traditional cement backboard where tiles are glued directly to the drywall? The core isnt waterproof, but it can withstand getting wet without falling apart, so even if your waterproofing system leaks, the board will stay intact. When applying the thin-set, it should be applied in such a way that it fully fills any empty space between the Tile and Schluter product and is solid enough to support the weight of the tiles being installed. Install the drain adapter, if needed. The type of bonding mortar used to apply KERDI must be suitable for the substrate and must penetrate and engage the membrane fleece. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. ", Signed,Never Hung Kerdi A Day In Her Life. I also used the Kerdi drain. link to What Kind Of Paint For Garage Walls? . Tile can be installed directly over Kerdi-Board using the thinset method; For use with ceramic and natural stone tile; Return Policy; California residents. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. When cleaning thinset off of Schluter membranes, the manufacturer recommends using a wet sponge and taking care to avoid any scoring or inconsistencies on the surface of the membrane. Using self-leveling underlayment takes careful prep work. Even the tiling subs have moved away from mortar walls because of the labor cost and lack of craftsmen in the industry. As far as the tile/prep work, you are right that he is shifting the blame. Ditra is manufactured in a 3'3 width and comes in various roll lengths (54sf, 150sf, and 323 sf). And second, since it's foam, the board is super easy to cut with just a utility knife. Porcelain and ceramic tiles are stiff and hard materials, so if they are installed on an unlevel or bouncy surface they are highly susceptible to cracking. Once its cleaned, use caulk to seal all of the seams where the cement board meets the walls. :/. My floor tiles are 2" x 2"." - Lisa Jasper No - you can not use Kerdi Board on the floor. Blocking should be constant across this area when openings are larger than your fist. Step 1: Measure the area. Tile Shower SurroundCement Backerboard Location? Schluter Kerdi 108 Sq Ft Waterproofing Membrane - amazon.com Cement board (cbu) is not waterproof, but is not damaged by being wet. When installing Schluter Kerdi Membrane over cement backerboard: Should I use Alkali Resistant Mesh Tape and thinset on the seams of the backer board (for long term durability to prevent each board moving independently thus preventing cracking) prior to installing the Kerdi membrane. Schulter Ditra is manufactured by Schluter Systems and is a 1/8 thick polyethylene uncoupling membrane that is specifically designed for tile installations. The difference between the phonemes /p/ and /b/ in Japanese. Cement board is known to be very heavy and somewhat difficult to cut. Can you remove tile from Kerdi membrane? Without an underlayment, even the slightest movement of the subfloor can result in cracking of the tile and crumbling of the grout lines. Best substrate for kerdi membrane - nsbu.treviso-aug.it Once the membrane is in place, it can be sealed and reinforced with Kerdi-Fix sealant, Kerdi band, and Kerdi-Drain for added waterproofing strength. Foam-core tile backing board has two big advantages over other backer boards. With that said, the key benefits of Kerdi Board include: While cement board may be the most common and widely-known tile substrate, Kerdi Board is giving it a run for its money. All it takes is the right preparation. x 48 in. True cement board (Durck, Wonderboard) is my first choice as a tile or Kerdi backer. When applying Kerdi membrane to cement board, the edges and seams of the membrane must be lapped, meaning that each layer should overlap the portion underneath it by a minimum of two inches. That's the way us "Tile Guys" do it all the time. Do you have any pictures? There is definitely skill & planning required to doit right. . We ended up sponging the Hardi and wetting and booking the Kerdi (a la wallpaper), and that made the installation go much smoother. One of the company says they are going to apply kerdi membrane on the drywall, then tiles onto the kerdi membrane, and as such as cement backboard would not be required. @JimmyFix-it - hardiboard is not really porous unless it is completely saturated. Modified thin-set mortars must dry for the polymers to coalesce and form a hard . Can You Put RedGard On HardieBacker Board? - Next Modern Home It is important to waterproof Hardie board to make it more water-resistant, as well as to protect the materials from the elements. Let the mortar dry for 24 hours then test the shower. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. I usually use Durock. Since the existing wall board will be removed, I'd prefer to go a little extra and install a water proof cement board type base so the tile has a solid substrate even if it were to get wet . Need help liner vs liquid membrane question. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. ), Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain, Finite abelian groups with fewer automorphisms than a subgroup. Can I put Kerdi board over drywall? No bulges either, but definetly no thin spots.-Not paying attention to the direction of the comb. Schluter says that the Kerdi membrane and tile can be installed over standard gypsum wall board without any problems. A lot of folks like using cement board but it's heavy and requires a waterproofing membrane over it. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-2','ezslot_25',167,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-2-0');Waterproofing should be done prior to the installation of any tile including behind the shower tile. First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. Also, apply the acrylic mastic between the Create curved designs around pipes or columns using the vertically-grooved KERDI-BOARD-V, or use L-shaped KERDI-BOARD-E panels to enclose similar. Mike Holmes uses backer on his show. Sweeby-Can you clarify- I undestood that the thinset would tend to dry out from the thirsty hardi or skim over from the air; so how does booking the Kerdi help with the first? They are designed to provide a waterproof, vapor-tight layer to the substrate, which in this case would be the cement board. We tried soaking the cement board and applying the kerdi in small sections. They are absorbed into the surface material and help keep moisture away from the substrate surface. When installation is done properly, Kerdi membrane offers a waterproof barrier that can protect the plywood below from moisture. This will include installing its components, such as drain plate and drain collar, as well as Kerdi Band for further protection of seams and corners. The drywall's back side fails, and it's just as bad or worse than it was on the tile side. Kerdi Board is expensive, but I can justify it because it saves time, and it's a joy to use. Both Kerdi Board and cement board are designed to smooth out uneven spots on the installation surface, create an unbending layer that wont flex underfoot, and also provide a waterproof barrier. You peeled it off? Foam-core tile backing board has two big advantages over other backer boards. Kerdi on shower curbs - JLC-Online Forums When screwed to the framing, thin strips of cement board fracture more easily than thin strips of fiber-cement. New England. All shower/tub areas should have concrete board (I prefer hardiboard). I have corrugated metal shower surround & grab bars. These multifunctional tile substrate and building panels are thus perfect for creating bonded waterproofing assemblies with tile coverings. Sloped Shower Tray KST1220/1525 - The Home Depot. If a pipe or faucet ever leaks in the wall this will ruin your shower. When installing Schluter Kerdi Membrane over cement backerboard: Should I use Alkali Resistant Mesh Tape and thinset on the seams of the backer board (for long term durability to prevent each board moving independently thus preventing cracking) prior to installing the Kerdi membrane. PROBLEM SOLVED for Tub Flange when Installing Cement Board and Tile. Plus, if you use the mold and moisture resistant drywall, it will be extra insurance against mold. Think about movement. But that doesn't address your question, so it's just a comment, not an answer as such. This will help to extend its lifespan and make sure it looks its best for years to come. Installation is simple- just trowel a layer of thin-set adhesive on the floor and embed the mat in it, then fill the cavities with thin-set. Schluter Ditra VS Cement Board (Which is better?) ), Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar is recommended. Well, DH said he had virtually no time to work with the stuff before it dried out, so he switched from my spritz bottle to a sponge. The most important thing to remember when applying the membrane over the cement board is to make sure the surface is clean and free of any debris, dust or other contaminants. It is designed to form a waterproof layer between cement board and tiles, helping create a watertight installation. vegan) just to try it, does this inconvenience the caterers and staff? It looks like you have Kerdi installed on the floor and not Kerdi Board. Self-leveling underlayment has many of the same advantages as a dry-pack mortar bed but doesnt require as much skill to install. My understanding is that Schluter-Kerdi, being a sheet topical membrane, recommends just going with regular drywall instead of cement board but you can certainly use cement board as the substrate. Houzz utilise des cookies et d'autres technologies de suivi similaires pour personnaliser mon exprience utilisateur, me proposer du contenu pertinent et amliorer ses produits et services. @JimmyFix-it - You are right. After installing your mud bed, make sure it is fully cured before applying Aquadefense. Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? ! What I would be most scared off is the fact that no inside or outside corners appear to have been used. Jessica considers herself a home improvement and design enthusiast. I used to "trust" the Kerdi and drywall until I had a shower that the valve broke inside the wall cavity four years after being put in. The Kerdi membrane should be applied with the standard procedure, using a hogg brush or a notched trowel to spread the thin-set mortar and a roller to ensure appropriate adhesion. Furthermore, if you're working in an older home KERDI-BOARD fits better than cement board in odd spaces. Greenboard is the same as regular drywall. #2. Allow the primer to dry completely before proceeding with the KERDI installation. I used 1/2 Hardibacker board over the studs and then used the Kerdi membrane over the Hardi. Your real issues are the lack of proper corners on this shower. Glass mat gypsum board is a better choice. Thanks. Cut the shower tray to size. One thing I do like fibercement (Hardie) for is when I need thin strips of cement board. Now there's nothing particularly wrong with fiber-cementit's just not my first choice. Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4HjHT6_cUo, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEt6irjJCI0, My master suite addition & full bath to 1/2 bath renovation. I still wet the walls first. 120 sq feet including the floor. Not even the plumber's fault as it was just a bad valve. I think the first one I used was cheap and that was part of the problem. For the floor I make a dry mix mud base and then the Kerdi membrane. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[580,400],'remodelormove_com-large-mobile-banner-1','ezslot_17',164,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-large-mobile-banner-1-0');As an added precaution, you may want to consider to adding a water-resistant layer afterwards, such as a caulking or flashing tape. Properly waterproofed Hardie board should last for many years. x 33 ft. Waterproofing Membrane: Kerdi-Board 1/2 in. http://www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/Shower-System/KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/Schluter%C2%AE-KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/p/KERDI_SHOWER-KIT, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup. Cement board is a good, reliable backer board that works well on both floors and walls. Cement board and grout are not water proof, if there's Kerdi no moisture is ever going to be able to get behind it. Yes, you should prime drywall before installing KERDI in order to ensure proper adhesion and a successful installation. By the time you switch from the RG application to the Kerdi installation, it should be dry. Run a damp towel over the cement board surface to dust . Modified vs. Unmodified Mortar With Kerdi Membranes
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